May 26, 2005

Discouraging Signs the Country Has Lost Its Mind

Filed under: Random Stuff — Bob Gifford @ 1:50 am

A few weeks ago I sat in my room back at the hospital, having taken my meds from the very helpful nurse, with smooth jazz playing in the background, and smiled while my hospital roommate told me that he was actually an alien from another universe. Then I wrote a post titled “Encouraging Signs the Country Has Not Lost Its Mind“.

Today, however, my insurance has run out, the hospital has booted me, I can’t afford to fill the prescriptions the hospital gave me, and my alien/hospital-roommate is trying to kill me to keep me from telling Dick Cheney that his home planet is oozing with oil.

So I’ve titled this post accordingly.

  • Scott McLellan said today when asked about stem-cell research that “… the President believes we should value life at every stage…The President’s policy is that we should not be using public dollars for the destruction of life”…

    …while “American troops killed at least 10 suspected militants in Haditha” today

    …and Gregory Scott Johnson was told his execution wouldn’t be delayed to allow him to donate part of his liver to his sister…

    …and the number of children with health insurance in the US grows

  • Federal money is used to fund Christian anti-condom abstinence-only sex education…

    …resulting in the continued spread of STDs, including AIDS, and unwanted pregnancies that may end in an abortion

  • The United States Naval Academy is now known for three things: tolerance of student-on-student rape, intolerance of non-Christians…

    …and its close proximity to a Christian organization called “Focus on the Family”

  • Many Christians believe, as chronicled by the Left Behind books, that we are entering the end-times when a political leader will co-opt religion (or is it the other way around?) to obtain unchallenged political control, bringing about Armageddon…

    …while President Bush co-opts Christianity (or is it the other way around?) in his attempt to obtain unchallenged political control, bringing about a permanent conservative majority

Fortunately, I must be delusional, because if I’m not, then the rest of the country is crazy.

25 Comments

  1. Why must we still complian about the war…I mean 10 dead militants is better then one dead american, Another thing about this is if you claim to be religious how can you support liberal views. Abortion is wrong in every way. Gay marriege is wrong in every way. The death penalty is O.K. in some curcumstances, and war is not always wrong, God started wars alot in the bible to protect his people. He sent his people off to war alot. He gave his commanders the oder to got o war. But when we look at it now its wrong? I just cant buy into that. Do you think God would have wanted us to stand by and let Saddam continue to kill his own people for now reason? God is a loving God yes. But he is also a just God, and he works through His people to get the things he wants done. I believe that He worked through Bush to topple the saddam regiem, and to battle terrorism all over the world. But it seems that people miss that point now a days. Now I am not saying all wars are good, there must be a good reason for war for me to think it is a worthy cause and I think that this war is a worthy cause, we must protect ourselves. We must protect Kawait, and Isreal, Gods people. Also as the worlds greatest super power we have an obligation. So next time you choose to support liberal views and try to back it up with God support, read the bible find out what He really wants of you.

    Comment by Matt — May 26, 2005 @ 4:15 am

  2. Matt, the Bible contains this really great part called the New Testament, too! It has the story of Jesus. Jesus was not in favor of blowing up innocent Iraqi children or lying about WMDs. You might want to check that part of the Bible out, too. Listen, Matt, in all seriousness, God does not call Christians to gullibility. Read the Bible, yes. Read also Noam Chomsky (unless you are dead set against simple facts). Read the newspaper. Think for yourself. Not everything that comes out of the mouth of W is holy writ. Not everything that comes out of Colorado Springs is truth. We must be discerning, Matt. This requires knowing the character of God revealed in Jesus Christ and using the brain He gave us.

    Comment by Dr. Mike Kear — May 26, 2005 @ 7:00 am

  3. PS: Great article, Bob! Next time you go to the hospital and get those great drugs that make you think everything’s alright, I want to go with you and get some, too. Because if you’re delusional, then so am I.

    Comment by Dr. Mike Kear — May 26, 2005 @ 7:05 am

  4. “I mean 10 dead militants is better then one dead american,”

    WHAT?!? Where in scripture do you find the passage that says American lives are worth more than non-American ones, Matt? Also, keep in mind that the article said “suspected militants”. You’re saying that the life of any one American is worth more than the lives of 10 people who may or may not be involved in a violent movement in Iraq? I find that hard to justify in religious terms.

    Comment by Chris T. — May 26, 2005 @ 7:47 am

  5. Look I know the New Testament, I gave my life to Christ. But I think that you people are the misguided ones. I do not think it is even possible to claim to be a christian and then say you are a liberal. Liberal views are very very anti-biblical. I personly do not think Republicans are perfect either. But there moral issues which is what is really important are good views. They go by the bible. Like I said before. Gay marriage, abortion is all wrong in the eyes of God, and liberals support that. That right there should be enough to get you thinking that is my only purpose here to get you think, thinking about your faith, and wether you are truly following God.

    Comment by Matt — May 26, 2005 @ 11:10 am

  6. Matt, I think it’s wonderful that you gave your life to Christ. As a Christian one of the most important things is to follow the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. It is more important to follow Jesus than it is to follow what some TV preacher or some politician says. This requires a bit of discipline (that’s where we get the word “disciple“) on your part. It means that we have to read the Bible for ourselves and follow the way of Jesus. You believe that abortion is wrong but that killing already born children is just fine (as long as they are Arabs). You believe that it’s fine to kill people based on their nationality. Does this really sound like the Jesus of the Bible that you claim to believe in? You make uninformed judgments against other Christians, saying that we cannot be liberal and Christian at the same time, yet Jesus, who you claim to follow, tells us, “Judge not lest ye be judged.” Morals and family values are bigger than just the right-wing fundamentalist dogma that you’ve been fed. Lying, cheating, stealing, and killing innocent children are not good morals, Matt. You sound quite young to me, Matt. You really, honestly need to begin to think for yourself – it‘s not a sin to think! Read your Bible. Get to know the Jesus of the Bible, not just the hatefulness of the TV preachers. It’s not about Democrats and Republicans, Matt. It’s about right and wrong. Peace!

    Comment by Dr. Mike Kear — May 26, 2005 @ 11:34 am

  7. I do not think it is even possible to claim to be a christian and then say you are a liberal.

    Wow, apparently you have decided I don’t exist, that I can’t be both an orthodox Christian and a political progressive. Do you really mean to condemn the faith of millions of your brothers and sisters in Christ?

    Following Dr. Mike’s lead, let me quote some more from the Bible:

    “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” and “Love your neighbor as yourself”.

    “Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

    “…’Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'”

    “If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all.”

    “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”…”Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you.”

    Forgive me, but I just don’t see how these teachings lead inexorably to conservative politics. I don’t understand how these teachings make “liberal Christian” an oxymoron. In fact, quite the opposite — it seems very difficult to reconcile the teachings of Jesus with the words and actions of many conservative Christian leaders.

    Comment by Bob — May 26, 2005 @ 12:51 pm

  8. Yes, but doesnt Jesus also want us to stand up for the persecuted? The Iraqi People were being persecuted. We had an obligation to help them. Also by saying we are killing Children in Iraq, and yes children are dyingbut we are not targeting them, and not just because they are arab. I am not a racist in any sense. But I do know the bad thigns that come from war, and that is one of them. But Another thing, do you not think that we should not defend ourelves? that we should protect the people of our country? Let my tell you agian I do think for myself. Also I do not believe anything those Preachers on T.V. talk about, they are out to get money, they are not true christians. The fact that I said your not a christian if you are liberal I still stand beside. If you are a true liberal and you believein everything they believe in then it is impossible. Another thing is we do not know exactly what God thinks on war, but we do know exactly what he thinks on abortion and gay marriage. It’s wrong. So why support something you KNOW is wrong/ you are also right I am young, but I do think for myself, I am 17. I am still growing int he Lord. But I know what I am talking about. I dont by into the propagana.

    Comment by Matt — May 27, 2005 @ 5:03 am

  9. Matt, if I judged everyone the way you do … I would say that Conservatives cannot be Christians because they are warmongers, murderers, liars, they are not good stewards of the earth, they support a president who has lied to us repeatedly, they spend money like we are made of it, they are greedy, they do not help the poor, etc.

    I am a Liberal. I do not support gay marriage. I wish no one would ever need an abortion, but until we change the reasons for them we will always have abortion. I am against war. I am against lying. I am for being a good steward of the earth. I am for helping and teaching the poor. I am for being a follower of Christ and not this world, as Jesus calls for me to do. I am for being compassionate, loving, and for discernment nor judgement.

    I am a Democrat. I am a Christian. I am Liberal.

    And, you can question my salvation and eat the political rhetoric until you vomit it … but it will not change the fact that I am a Christian, I am saved, and I am a follower of Christ. You, on the other hand, will answer to God for thinking you are equal to God and can determine the salvation of others.

    Comment by Angel — May 27, 2005 @ 8:13 am

  10. I have never said I was like God in any way at all, God is far greater then any of us. I just want to say this one thing. In the bible is is clearly stated that abortion and gay marriage are wrong in every way. Under no curcumstances is either right. But the bible does not clearly state God position on war. You can twist the context of the bible all you want you can milk it dry. But there is not clear statement about war. So to vote democrat just because you think God does not want this war, you are also voting for the support of gay marriage and abortion, wether or not your personaly believe it is right or wrong you are still voting in support of it. Which is wrong no matter how you look at it, because you are going agianst Gods will. God does not want us to sit back and let the mass murders occur all over the world. That is not what he ment by turn the other cheek. By invading Iraq we have stopped another potental Hitler. Do you think God is upset about that?

    Comment by Matt — May 27, 2005 @ 11:13 am

  11. Matt, again I implore you to begin to think for yourself! Actually OPEN your Bible and READ! Your statement that “the bible does not clearly state God’s position on war” shows your spiritual immaturity as well as your ignorance of the Holy Bible. Please consider opening your Bible (and your mind) and reading such things as:

    “Pursue peace with everyone…” (Heb. 12:14)

    “The fruit of the Spirit is…peace…” (Gal. 5:22)

    “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God.” (Matt. 5:9)

    Christ is… “The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6)

    Matt, the God you worship is a God who steals, kills, and destroys. That is NOT the God of the Bible! Listen to our Savior in John 10:10. “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.” The God of life who is manifested in Jesus Christ does not need to kill innocent Iraqis or Afghans. His word is a word of peace. His life is a life of peace.

    Open your heart, Matt, as well as your mind and your Bible. There is much for you to learn!

    Peace,

    Mike

    Comment by Dr. Mike Kear — May 27, 2005 @ 11:55 am

  12. Matt, you questioned the salvation of others when you said, “I do not think it is even possible to claim to be a christian and then say you are a liberal.” That is putting yourself as God because you are human and cannot determine the salvation of other people past the basic John 3:16. And, when you start to claim that others cannot be Christian based on their politics, then you are putting yourself in the place of God.

    And, on the same token that you do so … the same could be said for Republicans. Is it Christian to lie? Is it Christian to be greedy and power hungry? Is it Christian to warmonger? It is Christian to turn one’s back on the poor or to ignore the environment? Is it Christian to try and create a Constitution based on theocracy when Jesus called for us not to even be of this world?

    I vote Democrat because I believe to stop abortion, we must understand what drives a woman to make such a decision and then to work on those. Democrats already have an initiative to do that in 95/10 and it is promising. Abortion existed before it was legal. Abortion would continue to happen if it were made illegal. To reduce the number of abortions in America, we have to give women alternatives and fight the reasons why they are having abortions.

    I vote Democrat because Jesus says we are to help and teach the poor. I vote Democrat because we are to be good stewards of the earth. Many, many Democrats are not for gay marriage. John Kerry wasn’t either. As a Christian I believe my Bible when it says that marriage is between a man and a woman. But, I believe that gay people should be allowed to have civil unions. Let the world have civil unions. That does not stop us from loving our homosexual brothers and sisters.

    Also, the Bible does speak on matters of war. I would suggest you read the New Testament. Jesus said we are not to murder. He also said we are to be peacemakers. We are to love our neighbors as ourselves and we are also to love our enemies. All those things speak highly against war. Especially war born out of lies that Saddam was partly responsible for 9/11 and had WMDs.

    No political party has the lotto holdings on Christianity, Matt. That is where political rhetoric comes in. You see the splinter in the eyes of Democrats, yet you don’t see the beam in the eyes of your fellow Republicans. And, until you can address the beam in your own eye … you cannot speak on the splinter in mine.

    Comment by Angel — May 28, 2005 @ 6:34 am

  13. Here are some bible verses for you guys to read. Tell me if you still think God would never want war.

    “When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work fo you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand put to the sword all men. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city you may take as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies.” (Deut 20:10-15). Look God clearly is supporting war here. Dont forget the teachings in the old testament as well.

    “When your people go to war against their enemies, whereever your send them, and when they pray to the lord toward the city you have chosen and the temple I have built for your name, then hear from heaven their prayer and their plea, and uphold their cause”(1 Kings 8:44-45).

    “Contend, O Lord with those who contend with me; fight against those who fight against me”(Pss 35:1)

    There, this shows Gods support in war, as long as it is in his name, ther are many many more verses I have found supporting this, another thing you can ignore the Old Testament anymore, it is still Gods word just as much as the New Testment.

    Comment by Matt — May 28, 2005 @ 8:33 am

  14. I want to rephrase the first sentence I did not mean to say God “Wants” wars. I ment to say God supports wars, as long as they are in his name, and for a just and right cause.

    Comment by Matt — May 28, 2005 @ 3:30 pm

  15. Matt, obviously it is impossible for Christians to be liberal. Why even argue against such ignorance. Let them go on living there lives the way they want to. And let God have the final Judgement. There is no point in even arguing.

    Comment by Mark — May 28, 2005 @ 4:58 pm

  16. Yep. I’m guessing you boys are just happy that you’re among the eeeeelect at Brother Phelps (or brother fill-in-the-blank’s) church of the amazingly righteous and overtly holy.

    Now, imagine this, if you will. It’s judgment day. We’ve all died (or been “raptured”) and are standing before the Lord of Glory. Now this Lord of Glory is either my God or yours. Which do you think it will be???? We are either standing before your god, the god of hate and vengeance, who kills on the basis of race, who carpet-bombs children based on whether you’re an American or not, who hates based on one‘s political leanings, and who rains down evil because he‘s just really into warmongering; or, we are standing before the God of Jesus Christ, the God of the Bible. The God of Grace and Love.

    Now, here’s my crazy argument. I’m betting my eternal life on the fact that I’ll be standing before the God of Grace and Mercy on judgment day, the God of Jesus Christ, the God of the Bible. If, perchance, I end up standing before your god of hate, rape, and murder – well, I’d just as soon go to hell. I’m thinking that the devil is more merciful and holds a little closer to the actual teachings of the Bible than your god. Now, that’s just my wild Biblical Christian idea, though, you know, based on that crazy New Testament stuff.

    Now, if I’m wrong and you Bible scholar teenagers can show me the error of my eeevul liberal ways, just go ahead and show me where I’ve missed it (from the New Testament, of course – I’m kinda funny about believin’ that Jesus might have primacy over the old covenant). Now that “peace” business that Jesus and the Bible talked about – I’m sure that that stuff isn’t really true – hey! It was only the Bible. Rev, Phelps (or Rev. fill-in-the-blank) obviously knows more than li’l ol’ Jesus….doesn’t he?

    Just keep on believing’ what they tell ya…it’ll be Okay, Won’t it? WON’T IT??????????????

    Comment by Dr. Mike Kear — May 29, 2005 @ 11:30 pm

  17. In the bible is is clearly stated that abortion and gay marriage are…

    The Bible also says that the mathematical value of Pi is 3.0.

    Worship God. Not the Bible.

    God is in your heart. The Bible is a piece of paper written by flawed (but inspired) human beings. It’s certainly a finger, pointing the way to God. But don’t worship the finger. Look instead to The Lord.

    Comment by Osama_Been_Forgotten — May 31, 2005 @ 12:01 pm

  18. I wonder what is on TV…

    Comment by Mike — May 31, 2005 @ 9:00 pm

  19. are you telling me that the bible was written by humans, of course it was literaly, but it was written by God through humans, “all scripture is God breathed” Not just the new testament…..haha this is such a pointless argument because you people are so blind to the truth, I think I am just going to stop here, this is not the direction I wanted this to go. Good luck with the rest of your life, I truely hope and pray you all find the truth someday.

    Comment by Matt — June 1, 2005 @ 4:28 am

  20. Bob, you have a great post and the ensuing debate is just a microcosim of what is happening
    in our nation today. I think both the right and the left have to find a common starting point,
    something they both can agree on. So I would pose the following question: “Is the world different
    because Jesus Christ came into our world and died?”
    In Romans Paul contrasts the Law of what we know as the Old Testament with the grace and love
    which we find in Jesus Christ. Paul’s conclusion (Chapter 3)is that no one is saved by the Law
    but by the grace of God. Are there times when God’s grace and the Law conflict with one another?
    That’s what the story of the Good Samaritan is about. The Priest and the Levite do not help the man
    in the ditch because the purity laws would not allow them to do so. The Samaritan (today Jesus might
    substitute a queer or dike for the Samaritan because the religous folks then felt about Samaritans the
    way religious folk today feel about homosexuals) the Samaritan defied the Law and acted out of
    compassion. The point: When law interferes with compassion, error on the side of compassion.
    Jesus ate with sinners and tax collectors and prostitutes. Jesus broke the Sabboth Laws.

    Is the world and our relationship with God different because Jesus lived, died, and rose? You bet!
    Jesus said: “A new commandment I give you, that you love one another as I have loved you.”
    We can no longer cling to the legalism of the Old Testament without filtering it through
    the love of Jesus Christ. The Holiness Code of Leviticus tells us we can have slaves, we can
    sell our children, we are to kill persons who commit adultry, and many other things. Even
    thought the Old Testament tells us we can do this, we don’t! Why? Because it’s wrong…
    it conflicts, yes the Law conflicts, with the love and grace we find in Jesus Christ. And because
    we are Christians we do and live and love according to the teaching and will of our only Lord,
    Jesus Christ. Thanks be to God!

    Comment by Tony — June 1, 2005 @ 11:35 am

  21. Matt, have you actually studied the Bible? I would suggest getting involved in a Bible study class. When you do, you will find that God took extrordinary measures to preserve the line in which Jesus was to be born and fulfill prophecy. Sometimes that included one nation at war with another. But, when Jesus was born and the prophecy had been fulfilled, the lineage was no longer preserved as it had been. The teachings of Jesus became paramount and as Christians we are to follow JESUS. That is what it means to be a Christian.

    Comment by Angel — June 1, 2005 @ 5:57 pm

  22. I could not believe my eyes. “So to vote democrat just because you think God does not want this war, you are also voting for the support of gay marriage and abortion” Wow. This is utterly amazing to me–and sad, too, because it is a summation of the way so many in this country are thinking today. “We have decided to focus our hatred on a tiny, narrow, and rather insignificant part of the world, and the Democrats don’t agree with us. So even though Republicans are leading us all to commit unimaginable crimes against God, we can’t vote for Democrats because they don’t share our narrow hatreds.”

    Wow. I knew this was why our country was given into the hands of corrupt extremists in the last election–but it took a 17-yr-old to come out and say it. Kids are always the honest ones, aren’t they?

    Comment by Cristi Cave — June 15, 2005 @ 9:02 am

  23. When it’s a 17-year-old making those comments we can be examples to him by showing him the
    fruit of the Spirit. We know he has growing to do (as do all of us), and our patience can
    be the example. When the person saying those things is in a position of authority, there is
    truly cause for alarm.

    Comment by wildwest — June 16, 2005 @ 11:58 am

  24. Wekk that person is in authority, so start sounding the alarms………..

    Comment by Matt — June 17, 2005 @ 11:23 pm

  25. well*

    Comment by Matt — June 17, 2005 @ 11:23 pm

RSS feed for comments on this post.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.

Powered by WordPress